What are your thoughts on the Indian Judiciary?
Judicial reform has long been delayed in this country. First and foremost, we need to fill up the vacancies that exist in the lower courts. I mentioned to you earlier that there are 2 crore, 75 lakh cases pending in the lower judiciary, when we have almost as many as 3000 vacancy of judges. Again as an example of Allahabad High court, which is the High court of the most populous state of our country, there are close to 50% vacancies of judges and lakhs and lakhs of cases are pending.
What do you think maybe the reason?
India must be the only country in the world, where the Judiciary appoints itself. The system is startling. When you know there are vacancies occurring, you can easily begin to prepare 6 months ahead and plan the replacements. You have got to begin to implement a sane system. You cannot be beyond accountability. I have the greatest respect for the judiciary, but the judiciary must turn the light inwards for introspection on itself. Secondly, the judicial process itself takes too long and that is because there is not enough accountability in the higher benches. We are not using the instrumentality of the fast track courts in key areas like electoral cases and corruption. So we need to make changes there. And there is just too much corruption. All this can be worked upon. We need to have a special session of Parliament. Then there is no way in which a judge can be punished. The current system requires 100 members of the Lok Sabha, 50 members of the Rajya Sabha to present a motion for impeaching a High Court judge. Then the Speaker may or may not accept the request. If the Speaker does a committee set up, the committee sets up the report. But not a single judge in the entire history of the Republic of India has been impeached. So you need another system because there is corruption in the Judiciary. I propose another system in the book, which is nothing but change. This country needs change. Some systems exist but they need to be revamped. Some systems need to be tweaked in order for them to work and deliver in correspondence to the changed circumstances and some new instrumentalities need to be created. A combination of this is the only answer because adhoc changes will not do. Nor will occasional expressions of public outrage. We must look at comprehensive change. Chanakya’s New Manifesto is not a book of fiction. I want the young to engage themselves with change. Much of it is what they will identify with in their own lives. But they must begin with the need for that change because, as the slogan of this book and the website that is created says, your future is at stake more than anyone else. India is one of the youngest nations in the world and it’s true. Our average age is 29. Half our population is at least below the age of 25. Therefore, the future is most relevant to you, so you must understand the gravity of this crisis. Even though you are involved and caught in the day to day challenges of your education, and your job etc. please understand the gravity of the crisis and then begin to work systematically to bring systematic change.
How did you go about getting together the research for this book?
Actually, my whole life has been an education in writing this book because I have been an observer, a writer on the evolution of modern India in books like The Great Indian Middle Class, Being Indian Becoming Indian. I have also been an insider in the Government as a senior diplomat, but it was the combination of all of these years of observation and analysis triggered by a very clear idea of the ramifications of the current crisis.
How does one balance growth with economic equity?
You see, the economic growth with equity has to be our goal because we have too many people who are declined literacy and minimum wages. It requires a fresh approach and analyzing whether the instrumentalities we have been using thus far, however great they maybe in terms of their packaging and slogan value, are they efficacious? Are they effective? I am of the view that inefficient state altruism which is a top down model and has been verified to be inefficient and one that nurtures corruption down to the ground, with minimal or almost negligible benefits to the beneficiary, is not the only way to resolve the issue. A variety of other measures have to be used which I reveal in the book but first and foremost, you must understand what the truth is. How do you propose an alternative if you have not understood what we are doing currently is not working? And it is in that context that I say, if 60% of the people live on agriculture, and agriculture only contributes 16% of the GDP, its productivity is so low! Every year in India, for years upon years, agriculture has been growing by 2%. So unless you are unable to bring about a green revolution again, significantly boost agricultural productivity, how are you going to find a solution for poverty?
Secondly, even if you are able to boost agricultural productivity, you will still have a lot of surplus labour which is looking for jobs. So it’s common sense that you need to create a more labour intensive manufacturing sector, which is able to then employ these people and give them a wage.
We are neglecting both areas. We have announced a National Manufacturing Policy which claims to create 100 million new jobs, but announcements are not equivalent to the actual transformation into reality. That requires good governance, which is paralysed by the functioning of our democracy. So you have to see the problem in its entirety and then realise that the solution lies in building a more inclusive society .
In your book, you mention using technology to remove the middlemen and control corruption. Which is the best example of using technology you have seen in recent times?
I have seen it in two states. And I would encourage young people to go there, travel and observe their implementation. The Right to Public Services Act in Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh are being implemented very well. Please see its functioning. I argue that if these acts can work well in these two states, then these acts must be replicated on a nationwide basis through the intervention of our Parliament by passing a Bill to the respect. If something is so important and has had such great effects in reducing the opportunity for corruption, then why should it be left to the initiative of individual states?
We must urge all states to adopt such laws.
Chanakya aced the technique of understanding human psyche. Your thoughts…
When we talk of this subject, let me tell you why I use Chanakya as an inspiration for our ability to re-invent India. After all, here was a man from our country, from our soil, who did it 2,300 years ago, then why can’t we? What were the qualities of Chanakya? First of all, he had the clarity of vision to identify a problem with honesty and provide solutions. He was not happy to be just caught in an analysis Secondly , he had a tremendous ability to understand human behaviour, that is what I mean by understanding psyche. As I said to you as far as corruption is concerned, given a chance with no proper system of accountability in place , Indians are more likely to be corrupt than be honest, because there is a moral relativism in our time. So we need to respond to that kind of psyche. The same applies to government’s scheme to help the poor. Unless you have a more caring society, unless people are genuinely moved to see poverty and deprivation, the best schemes submitted down the line are by people who would rather stiffen it up for corruption. So we have to change that psyche or adopt a system that helps to change it or control it. Chanakya believed in leadership. Similarly, Chanakya genuinely believed that the welfare of the people is the reason for this State to exist, and he also believed in dandneeti. Those who break the laws of the State, in our case now within democratic norms, must be punished within a predictable, exemplary framework. He also believed when the National interest is at stake, the national interest is more important than the individual. Similarly, he had absolute clarity on national security, on war preparedness and strategy. So for these reasons I’m inspired by Chankya.
